LiT Condescending Towards Japanese Culture
Moderator: Bob
LiT Condescending Towards Japanese Culture
I found LiT to be a movie about upper class Americans, who are "trapped" in luxery hotels in Tokyo, and miss America so much they just can't enjoy themselves.
So what? Book yourself a 1st class ticket back to Bose, Idaho. Why should I care about people who cant enjoy one of the greatest cities in the world?
This film gave no sense whatsoever of any understanding of Japan other than as a backdrop for lonely Americans. Japan was a "alien world" these Americans are trapped in. But there is no true appreciation shown for that world or culture. It could have been set in Afghanistan, and they just would've had to change much.
Most of us would be lucky to get the chance to go to Japan. And i'm sure we would all make the most of it, even if everything wasnt exactly what we are used to.
I had no sympathy for these spoiled brats. Self-pitying protagonists dont work well in film. I'm sorry Ms Coppola hasn't learned that from her father. She has a long way to go.
Judging from this film, Americans seem to have no understanding of the uniqueness of Japanese culture. No understanding that, yes American culture is copied, but it is also made uniquely Japanese and blended with many other influences. And that this "Japanization" of American culture is not an ineptness, or a failed mimicry, but often an improvement.
I lived in Japan for a year and i loved every minute of it. I would pick Japan over America any day of the week.
So what? Book yourself a 1st class ticket back to Bose, Idaho. Why should I care about people who cant enjoy one of the greatest cities in the world?
This film gave no sense whatsoever of any understanding of Japan other than as a backdrop for lonely Americans. Japan was a "alien world" these Americans are trapped in. But there is no true appreciation shown for that world or culture. It could have been set in Afghanistan, and they just would've had to change much.
Most of us would be lucky to get the chance to go to Japan. And i'm sure we would all make the most of it, even if everything wasnt exactly what we are used to.
I had no sympathy for these spoiled brats. Self-pitying protagonists dont work well in film. I'm sorry Ms Coppola hasn't learned that from her father. She has a long way to go.
Judging from this film, Americans seem to have no understanding of the uniqueness of Japanese culture. No understanding that, yes American culture is copied, but it is also made uniquely Japanese and blended with many other influences. And that this "Japanization" of American culture is not an ineptness, or a failed mimicry, but often an improvement.
I lived in Japan for a year and i loved every minute of it. I would pick Japan over America any day of the week.
It's been mentioned several times before in this forum that the movie isn't about "getting" Japan or Japanese culture; it's about the relationship between Bob and Charlotte. And I don't think they necessarily miss America. The conflicts they're feeling with their spouses would be felt anywhere in the world (in Charlotte's case, it's right there in Japan with her).
It's interesting that you use your perception of this movie to draw conclusions about what Americans must know about other cultures. If you look around the rest of this forum, you'd see that most of the fans here have a genuine affection and appreciation for Japan and its culture.
If you'd like to take your opinions and flesh this out into a conversation, I'd be more than willing to discuss it, but it seems kind of rude that you find your way onto a fansite and start throwing unprovoked negative assumptions around.
(I know where you're going with the evolution of Japanese culture: how it embraces outside influences but makes them something rich and unique; I agree. I just feel this wasn't the best way to start the conversation)
Edit:
But before jumping the gun and using that potent word “racism,” the logical thing to do is delve into the mind of the director. Why Japan? Lost in Translation apparently infuses autobiographical elements and details based on Coppola’s numerous trips to Tokyo in her early and mid-20’s according to a Q&A interview with the director and her partner, Ross Katz, (posted on the movie’s official website), one of which is the sense of wondrous displacement. She makes no mention of having a Japanese “advisor” on set although 90% of the crew was Japanese, which Coppola reveals prompted real-life incidents of the crew members losing each other in translation as well as spending twice as more time on shoots due to language barriers. Furthermore, the Japanese actors in the project were actually really Japanese-speaking natives (aside from a very few bilingual translators). Taka, the photographer who directs Bob’s character during the Satori commercial shoot, really does mispronounce English names in real life and for some odd reason, Coppola wanted to capture the spontaneity of Taka and Bill Murray’s dialogue of miscommunication. Now why would she want to do that?
It appears that Coppola’s directive aim was to fully contextualize the love story revolving around the two main characters (Charlotte and Bob) who almost unwillingly travel to a city that is foreign to them in every sense of the word – the food, language, culture, humor, mannerisms and beauty. Yes, beauty – let’s not forget Coppola’s breathtaking shots of Tokyo’s invigorating cityscapes and the gorgeous Japanese hotel garden that Charlotte admiringly observes. It seems her intention was to provoke a nostalgic sense of isolation in both Bob and Charlotte solely to enhance their incidental semi-romantic bond as two lost people finding solace in each other. The film could have taken place in any other country but Coppola’s personal experiences guided her artistic vision. Plus, I cannot imagine why a “racist” would first fall in love with a foreign city and invest so much time and effort just to make a racist statement against Japanese. Or why a “racist” would enjoy the company of and entrust her Japanese friends like Fumihiro Hayashi, who Coppola affectionately calls Charlie Brown (the guy who sings “God Save the Queen” in the karaoke scene). Her artistic intention is clearly defined in her own words: “I can only say why I wanted to make the movie: to convey what I love about Tokyo and visiting the city. It's about moments in life that are great but don't last. They don't go on, but you always have the memory and they have an effect on you. That's what I was thinking about.”
That came from an article here
It's interesting that you use your perception of this movie to draw conclusions about what Americans must know about other cultures. If you look around the rest of this forum, you'd see that most of the fans here have a genuine affection and appreciation for Japan and its culture.
If you'd like to take your opinions and flesh this out into a conversation, I'd be more than willing to discuss it, but it seems kind of rude that you find your way onto a fansite and start throwing unprovoked negative assumptions around.
(I know where you're going with the evolution of Japanese culture: how it embraces outside influences but makes them something rich and unique; I agree. I just feel this wasn't the best way to start the conversation)
Edit:
But before jumping the gun and using that potent word “racism,” the logical thing to do is delve into the mind of the director. Why Japan? Lost in Translation apparently infuses autobiographical elements and details based on Coppola’s numerous trips to Tokyo in her early and mid-20’s according to a Q&A interview with the director and her partner, Ross Katz, (posted on the movie’s official website), one of which is the sense of wondrous displacement. She makes no mention of having a Japanese “advisor” on set although 90% of the crew was Japanese, which Coppola reveals prompted real-life incidents of the crew members losing each other in translation as well as spending twice as more time on shoots due to language barriers. Furthermore, the Japanese actors in the project were actually really Japanese-speaking natives (aside from a very few bilingual translators). Taka, the photographer who directs Bob’s character during the Satori commercial shoot, really does mispronounce English names in real life and for some odd reason, Coppola wanted to capture the spontaneity of Taka and Bill Murray’s dialogue of miscommunication. Now why would she want to do that?
It appears that Coppola’s directive aim was to fully contextualize the love story revolving around the two main characters (Charlotte and Bob) who almost unwillingly travel to a city that is foreign to them in every sense of the word – the food, language, culture, humor, mannerisms and beauty. Yes, beauty – let’s not forget Coppola’s breathtaking shots of Tokyo’s invigorating cityscapes and the gorgeous Japanese hotel garden that Charlotte admiringly observes. It seems her intention was to provoke a nostalgic sense of isolation in both Bob and Charlotte solely to enhance their incidental semi-romantic bond as two lost people finding solace in each other. The film could have taken place in any other country but Coppola’s personal experiences guided her artistic vision. Plus, I cannot imagine why a “racist” would first fall in love with a foreign city and invest so much time and effort just to make a racist statement against Japanese. Or why a “racist” would enjoy the company of and entrust her Japanese friends like Fumihiro Hayashi, who Coppola affectionately calls Charlie Brown (the guy who sings “God Save the Queen” in the karaoke scene). Her artistic intention is clearly defined in her own words: “I can only say why I wanted to make the movie: to convey what I love about Tokyo and visiting the city. It's about moments in life that are great but don't last. They don't go on, but you always have the memory and they have an effect on you. That's what I was thinking about.”
That came from an article here
Last edited by Azshi on Fri May 06, 2005 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- You Make it Easy
- Charlie Brown
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:35 am
- Contact:
- A moment of silence
- Suntory Time
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:01 pm
- Location: New York
Um, first off you didn't understand the movie, because if you would have then you would have never posted this.
This movie is about two people who have lost touch with themselves and the world. They need someone to take them out of that limbo, and that is what they do to each other when they meet.
Coppola chose Japan, don't know why, maybe because she and Katz had been living there (i heard that on the DVD extras). This film is not trying to tell you that the characters did not love the country or did not appreciate it. Try being alone, lost, confused, trust me I have been all of these things and it takes you away from your surroundings. This could have been Utopia Land and they would have felt the same way, why? Because they had internal problems, problems of soul and heart.
Besides, Charlotte wonders around the city, even spends a day in Kyoto. They did not hate the place, they knew the beauty and the exotic side of Japan but could not enjoy the whole lot because of their desires and problems, and also due to their different schedules and responsabilities. You can see that once they felt better they were able to hang out and enjoy. Charlotte would walk and try Ikebana and all. Bob was busy with his job, after all he had one. So, the movie is not condescending at all. If you don't like the movie, ok, we get you, we all have movies that we dont like but why choosing the Fan Forum for it? What can we do about it?, we love it and nobody's going to change that. Write a letter to Coppola and let her know, not us.
Thanks.
This movie is about two people who have lost touch with themselves and the world. They need someone to take them out of that limbo, and that is what they do to each other when they meet.
Coppola chose Japan, don't know why, maybe because she and Katz had been living there (i heard that on the DVD extras). This film is not trying to tell you that the characters did not love the country or did not appreciate it. Try being alone, lost, confused, trust me I have been all of these things and it takes you away from your surroundings. This could have been Utopia Land and they would have felt the same way, why? Because they had internal problems, problems of soul and heart.
Besides, Charlotte wonders around the city, even spends a day in Kyoto. They did not hate the place, they knew the beauty and the exotic side of Japan but could not enjoy the whole lot because of their desires and problems, and also due to their different schedules and responsabilities. You can see that once they felt better they were able to hang out and enjoy. Charlotte would walk and try Ikebana and all. Bob was busy with his job, after all he had one. So, the movie is not condescending at all. If you don't like the movie, ok, we get you, we all have movies that we dont like but why choosing the Fan Forum for it? What can we do about it?, we love it and nobody's going to change that. Write a letter to Coppola and let her know, not us.
Thanks.
Nothing is more beautiful than something that will not last
- findingcharlotte
- Charlie Brown
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:16 pm
- Just Like Honey...
- Suntory Time
- Posts: 398
- Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:56 pm
- Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
I think you guys are all wasting your time arguing over something with someone who has no arguments to make himself.pachanko wrote:Exactly. Theres no reason to set it in Japan.
A good movie would have a good reason for setting it there.
A good movie would also have characters that are worth caring about.
Would you have enjoyed the movie if it was set in some other foreign city, Pachanko?
I'd rather be a gear in a big, deterministic, physical machine than just some random swerving.
Coppola pokes fun at Japan in a scene or two ("Lip my stocking," the low shower head), but my impression is that she is mostly awestruck at the dynamic nature of an incredibly modern city that is so noisy and full of people and yet operates so smoothly and still respects its ancient traditions.
Bill Murray's comic style is self-deprecating. He is going to make himself look foolish. That doesn't mean he's putting anyone down...including himself. It's just the way he responds to the world he experiences.
The only condescension- and this is minor- I sense in the movie is the attitude toward John, Charlotte's husband. He comes off as a lightweight who takes himself way too seriously.
Bill Murray's comic style is self-deprecating. He is going to make himself look foolish. That doesn't mean he's putting anyone down...including himself. It's just the way he responds to the world he experiences.
The only condescension- and this is minor- I sense in the movie is the attitude toward John, Charlotte's husband. He comes off as a lightweight who takes himself way too seriously.
This past Sunday my wife and I were at a friends house watching movies. We were trying to find a movie that we would all agree on. Since no one had seen LIT, I suggested it. My friend's mother showed up and joined us. Her mother is from Kyoto, so I was interested in what her reaction would be to how her people were portrayed. She thought it was very accurate and that Bill Murray was hysterical. She didn't find it offensive one bit. She didn't like that Bob and Charlotte were essentially "having an affair", but loved how Japan was represented.