A new topic -
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:36 pm
I want to post something that may turn out to be controversial to some extent. I really want a variety of opinions from different people of different backgrounds. I suspect I will get them – and I hope this doesn’t lead to anything other than a discussion that will help me put some things in perspective.
(Yeah – that’s right; it’s all about me again!)
I want to sort of set some guidelines before I get to the topic. The first one is – it’s my thread so I’d like to try to keep it on topic. Second, I’m not sure I can delete it or lock it but if I feel it’s going wrong, then I may try or at least ask people to move the discussion to another thread. Next, I really want to get information and viewpoints so please be candid. I am NOT doing this as any kind of attempt to see if we can discuss something without problems – or to solve or smooth over any pending or past controversies.
No – this is purely selfish on my part. I feel a need to think through something. Our counseling is going on a break for a while – actually we’re slowing down to just a couple sessions over the summer. This is a good time for me to reflect on some things and the fact is, I like getting other people’s input without relying on face to face conversations where people tend to hold back somewhat.
Last condition – if you think this is out of line, or self-serving, or dumb, or anything negative – PLEASE simply ignore the thread. This is the LOUNGE – pretty much open to non-LiT topics to be discussed by the type of people who liked LiT.
OK – the question is:
Do open and sensitive women really want an open and sensitive man as a life partner / mate?
My own personal impression, which I’ve challenged several times in my life, is no. I can’t say I have a wealth of examples, but for all the women I know well enough to attempt to assess whether they are open and sensitive or not – I have only one possible example where the answer is yes. And I haven’t talked to that person in over 20 years.
I guess I have to start with a definition of open and sensitive. It’s easier to say what it isn’t. A very private person who will not talk to anyone other than (maybe) their spouse about personal matters is NOT open and sensitive. A person who maintains that they only have maybe one person they consider a friend – the rest are simply acquaintances – is NOT open and sensitive. Stereotypically, a man is NOT open and sensitive.
My theory has always been that “nice” guys are very well liked by women but as friends only. I was surprised to find there is a “theory” called the Ladder Theory (which started out as satire) that describes this. There are movies and TV shows speaking to this. It’s a prevalent notion.
Apart from the one exception I mentioned above, EVERY married couple I know falls into this pattern: if the guy is a “nice” guy, the woman has a dominating personality, and not really open and sensitive (else she wouldn’t be dominating .) If the woman is open and sensitive (not dominating) – she has a mate who is in one or more ways “stereotypically” male.
More definitions: a “nice” guy may have some stereotypical male traits, but they tend to be passive ones. For example, I love American football. But I’m no athlete – I simply like watching. I’m not very competitive, I don’t drink much, I don’t go out to bars “with the guys”, I don’t hunt and I've never even touched a gun in my life (except a BB gun - and I was really afraid I'd shoot my eye out), but I do like fishing. A lot of guys (and women) would call me a wimp – or a p*ssy. (Sorry for the phrase – but I’ve been called that too many time in my life to not include that as a description. It seems to mean something specific and I seem to fit it well.)
I’ve found over the years that I make a pretty good friend to women. And I’ve been told by three women (other than my wife) that I have traits than many (non-dominating, sensitive) women would love in a mate. I simply don’t believe it.
I have seen absolutely no examples of this. I’ve gotten to know a couple women at work just lately who seem to like me for the nice guy I am. Who seem to be the type of woman I’m describing. Their husbands seem to fit the stereotypes. I hear things like “oh, my husband would HATE that movie”, or “my husband would NEVER talk about that.” You get the idea – and they say it with such almost disgust of him and admiration in me that I want to say “well, then why did you marry him?” But I know the answer –they married the type of man they WANTED. The type of man they feel a man SHOULD be. The type they were attracted to. My type makes a great friend – or a great match with a dominating woman.
OK – enough of my thinking. Anyone want to join in?
(Yeah – that’s right; it’s all about me again!)
I want to sort of set some guidelines before I get to the topic. The first one is – it’s my thread so I’d like to try to keep it on topic. Second, I’m not sure I can delete it or lock it but if I feel it’s going wrong, then I may try or at least ask people to move the discussion to another thread. Next, I really want to get information and viewpoints so please be candid. I am NOT doing this as any kind of attempt to see if we can discuss something without problems – or to solve or smooth over any pending or past controversies.
No – this is purely selfish on my part. I feel a need to think through something. Our counseling is going on a break for a while – actually we’re slowing down to just a couple sessions over the summer. This is a good time for me to reflect on some things and the fact is, I like getting other people’s input without relying on face to face conversations where people tend to hold back somewhat.
Last condition – if you think this is out of line, or self-serving, or dumb, or anything negative – PLEASE simply ignore the thread. This is the LOUNGE – pretty much open to non-LiT topics to be discussed by the type of people who liked LiT.
OK – the question is:
Do open and sensitive women really want an open and sensitive man as a life partner / mate?
My own personal impression, which I’ve challenged several times in my life, is no. I can’t say I have a wealth of examples, but for all the women I know well enough to attempt to assess whether they are open and sensitive or not – I have only one possible example where the answer is yes. And I haven’t talked to that person in over 20 years.
I guess I have to start with a definition of open and sensitive. It’s easier to say what it isn’t. A very private person who will not talk to anyone other than (maybe) their spouse about personal matters is NOT open and sensitive. A person who maintains that they only have maybe one person they consider a friend – the rest are simply acquaintances – is NOT open and sensitive. Stereotypically, a man is NOT open and sensitive.
My theory has always been that “nice” guys are very well liked by women but as friends only. I was surprised to find there is a “theory” called the Ladder Theory (which started out as satire) that describes this. There are movies and TV shows speaking to this. It’s a prevalent notion.
Apart from the one exception I mentioned above, EVERY married couple I know falls into this pattern: if the guy is a “nice” guy, the woman has a dominating personality, and not really open and sensitive (else she wouldn’t be dominating .) If the woman is open and sensitive (not dominating) – she has a mate who is in one or more ways “stereotypically” male.
More definitions: a “nice” guy may have some stereotypical male traits, but they tend to be passive ones. For example, I love American football. But I’m no athlete – I simply like watching. I’m not very competitive, I don’t drink much, I don’t go out to bars “with the guys”, I don’t hunt and I've never even touched a gun in my life (except a BB gun - and I was really afraid I'd shoot my eye out), but I do like fishing. A lot of guys (and women) would call me a wimp – or a p*ssy. (Sorry for the phrase – but I’ve been called that too many time in my life to not include that as a description. It seems to mean something specific and I seem to fit it well.)
I’ve found over the years that I make a pretty good friend to women. And I’ve been told by three women (other than my wife) that I have traits than many (non-dominating, sensitive) women would love in a mate. I simply don’t believe it.
I have seen absolutely no examples of this. I’ve gotten to know a couple women at work just lately who seem to like me for the nice guy I am. Who seem to be the type of woman I’m describing. Their husbands seem to fit the stereotypes. I hear things like “oh, my husband would HATE that movie”, or “my husband would NEVER talk about that.” You get the idea – and they say it with such almost disgust of him and admiration in me that I want to say “well, then why did you marry him?” But I know the answer –they married the type of man they WANTED. The type of man they feel a man SHOULD be. The type they were attracted to. My type makes a great friend – or a great match with a dominating woman.
OK – enough of my thinking. Anyone want to join in?